Agree the play alone didnt lose the game for the Raiders, but the emotional swing in the game after that call was reversed was obvious. But its not as if St. Louis would have replaced New England as the NFLs most successful organization. The officials rule fumble. Losing on a fluke (and possibly bad) call is much more. "More than 68 percent of the leagues passes are short throws that target receivers either behind the line of scrimmage or within 10 yards of it. It was 10 years ago. Tuck rule or not the raiders got robbed. 4 Reply Jamie_Naughright And in Oakland, does Jon Gruden stick around instead of getting traded to Tampa Bay and wining a Super Bowl there? The Raiders went to the Super Bowl the next year, but were beaten by Gruden's Buccaneers, 4821 and the Raiders did not make the playoffs again until 2016. Repeat three to five times. Walt Coleman hasn't refereed a single Raiders game since making the "tuck rule" call 17 years ago, a ruling that still reverberates throughout the league on occasion. So please, for the love of god, SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!! The rule makes sense the way it is, changing it would just create ambiguity. If a QB stops his throwing motion and starts to protect the ball. And as for this clown harrisonhits2 says: Jan 11, 2011 12:11 PM. I think its time to change this rule, Pereira writes at FOXSports.com. raidernationbaby says: remember its the same ref that was in for the ravens vs raiders championship a year before when that fat lose goose broke gannons arm so the raiders would lose Duh. The tuck rule was implemented so refs wouldnt have to define the exact moment that a QB has stopped throwing, and instead is tucking the ball. To me its simple to fix, the tuck is not a pass to a reciever, and to some extent its not a fumble. Dont let revisionist history fool you: This wasnt some great Oakland team that was destined to win it all. The call was overturned upon review and ruled an incomplete pass, with the tuck rule cited. They had already lost in the playoffs and Mike Pereira and his crew of crooked and biased referees can go straight to hell for their ignorance! Incomplete pass? No waitMost likely the Steelers would have thrashed the Patriots in the AFC Championship gameOh well. Not a member? The Patriots should never had got that first Super Bowl. Im sure its no consolation to the many Raiders fans around the country.. How would that be a fumble? Were things run differently back then? Tuck Rule AKA F@cked Rule because someone always gets F@cked as a result of this rule!! Please check the opt-in box to acknowledge that you would like to subscribe. he is no longer in the act of throwing. In the end JUSTICE prevailed. During the game, one play and referee ruling makes this an iconic and one of the most controversial games in recent NFL history: The Tuck Rule play. hahaha Ben????? A fresh investigation into New England's conduct has reignited debate over the moral background of the organization and its long history of pushing boundaries of the NFL rulebook under Bill Belichick. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. QBs dont deserve a free pass. Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms like "I volunteer!" I gasp. "I volunteer as tribute!", "I want the audience to recognise you when you're in the arena," says Cinna dreamily. If the Raiders were that great how come they couldnt stop the Pats on one of the following plays ? Commentary on this game did not end after the season, the "Tuck Rule Game" has been debated since, with many, possibly even Brady, calling it a fumble. This weekend, ESPN will debut "The Tuck Rule," a "documentary" in the sense that it's a series of real people discussing, dissecting and squabbling over a real historical event the fateful. Because the play was initially ruled a fumble, instant-replay rules required the referee to see "incontrovertible visual evidence" on the replay that Brady had not "tucked the ball into his body and then {lost} possession" of it before reversing the original call on the field. Football legend Tom Brady has admitted that his career could have gone very differently if it wasn't for a ruling which went his way in 2002. Tom Brady finally admits Tuck Rule play 'might have been a fumble'. So the rule was fine for 10 years but now you see the wrong it it???? Either the QB throws it or they secure itdropping the ball is a fumble. As for the Raiders, who are still salty about the call all these years later, their season would have been extended by about one week. IF that scumbag didnt have money on the game and the raiders win then the Raiders go on to win the superbowl for the next 3 maybe 4 years It was 10 years ago. Raiders were the best team in the NFL from 2000-2003 WOULD OF BEEN LONGER PERHAPS IF IT WASNT FOR THAt SCUMBAG! But now Pereira works for FOX, not the NFL, and he says that the league needs to ditch the tuck rule. at Not much would have changed for Belichicks legacy, either. Please explain Einstein how you can have an incomplete pass without first throwing the football? In the waning minutes of the second quarter, Patriots defensive end Anthony Pleasant apparently forced Jets quarterback Vinny Testaverde to fumble the ball, with Patriots defensive end Richard Seymour making a recovery. Geeze the moron Raider fans really come out over the tuck rule. One, the Patriots are still moving forward from that moment and two, someone has to track down that old bastard Dreith and beat the truth out of him about his officiating in that playoff game. What in the hell caused the NFL to make up such a stupid rule in the first place? Throughout that game, the Patsies looked like crap with the exception of one drive in which Brady magically went 9 for 9 and threw a touchdown. Thirdly and finally, all you raider hacks owe every new englander a thank you! Keep the rule and let other teams feel the pain and sorrow I still feel from that cold wintry night 10 years ago Wow man I didnt realize what crybabies Raiders fans are even after 10 years. NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, and Note 2 were stated. RAIDERS WILL BE BACK. In week 2 of the NFL season in 2001. Oh no, wait, Steelers fans would lose out then. The Tom Brady rule states that a defender on the ground who has not been pushed into the quarterback cannot lunge at a quarterback's knee or lower legs. US AGAINST THE MEDIA The rule was properly applied, period. I love how people act like the Pats won against the Raiders only because of the tuck rule. - When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Were talking, of course, about the infamous Tuck Rule game, in which the New England Patriots, thanks to a late Tom Brady fumble being overturned because of an obscure rule, beat the Oakland Raiders to advance to the 2002 AFC Championship Game. If he gets hit while attempting to throw a pass then it would be incomplete as long as the ball goes forward. Because I find it laughable to be told let it go by New England fans. terumiarai says: Brown fumbled the ball at the end of the return, but Pats linebacker Larry Izzo recovered it with 2:06 left on the clock. It's been nearly two decades since he walked out of a snow-covered Foxboro Stadium on the wrong end of a 16-13 overtime loss to the Patriots in the infamous "tuck rule" game during the 2001 . If the ball lands to the side of, or behind the QB, its a fumble / backwards pass. Unfortunately, most fans will never take the time to see why the rule is there in the first place. Three plays later, Antowain Smith picked up eight yards for a first down at the Oakland 9 and the Patriots, now going against the wind, fought to set up the game-winning kick. IMO -if the QB is so pressured by the defense that the ball comes loose,if forward motion doesnt carry the ball past the line of scrimmage (or to the feet of an eligible receiver in the backfield) then it should be a fumble. January 19, 2022 1:59 pm ET. The rule means that a potentially key fumble could now be deemed an incomplete pass. [1] The Broncos eventually went on to win the game. Remember how you sucked in the Tampa Bay superbowl? Wow. "The five most significant plays in recent NFL history", "The NFL's 10 Greatest Postseason Games of the 2000s", "NFL rescinds 'tuck rule' The Boston Globe", "New York Jets at New England Patriots - September 23rd, 2001 - Pro-Football-Reference.com", "Holy Tuck: An oral history of the Raiders-Patriots Tuck Rule Game, which 15 years ago forever altered the NFL", "Best kick ever? I have done this and Woodson blitzed off the corner, forced a fumble and greg beikert recovered it winning the game for the Raiders. That's one of the primary questions posed in ESPN's latest "30 for 30" documentary, simply titled: "The Tuck Rule.". Tom Brady enjoyed a phenomenal 20 seasons with the New England Patriots.With a tenure that long, the future Hall of Fame quarterback made countless memories with the franchise. Jerry Jones believes Cowboys can keep Zeke and Pollard, NFL combine measurements for DBs: Full list of results, Jerry Jones believes Prescott can progress like Brady, NFL combine 2023 results tracker: Top performances, NFL combine 2023: Winners and losers from DB workouts, Report: Pollard to get franchise tag if deal isn't done. Register now! [7] The owners abolished the rule with a 291 vote at the 2013 annual meeting in Phoenix on March 20, 2013. The Patriots went on to defeat the Pittsburgh Steelers, 2417, in the AFC Championship Game, and then defeated the NFC champions St. Louis Rams, 2017, in the February 2, 2002 Super Bowl XXXVI on a last-second field goal by Vinatieri. The tuck rule was called in Week 2 of an NFL regular season matchup on September 23, 2001, between the New England Patriots and the New York Jets. The Tuck Rule was first enforced in 2001 when Vinny Testaverde faced the Patriots. benh999 says: Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. For that matter, neither do most sports writers. This rule is fine, its only the whining fans of teams that are unable to do their jobs well enough to win that want this rule changed. The call against the Raiders was not the tuck rule. My god. Brady posted his confession on social media, rekindling a 20-year debate in the NFL. The Tuck Rule Victoria Saeli Sports 4.9 29 Ratings; A weekly football podcast hosted by Victoria (@dirtbagqueer) and Katie (@KatesOfHeaven). A. Bitch!. First of all, I agree, its time for the ruled to be changed! raidernationabby the rule is correct. It was incorrectly applied in the Raiders/Pats game. The "Tuck Rule Game." It's a memory Raider Nation knows all too well. But screen passes and checkdowns are relatively common. What has now become known as the "Tuck Rule" game was played on January 19, 2002. In 2008, Brady suffered two torn ligaments during the Patriots' season-opening game with the Kansas City Chiefs. The refs missed that play completely. avana capital corporation. Bad rule. Tom Brady, after proving himself to the Patriots in 2001, gets the full time starting job still.The Pats would be a winning team throughout the decade, going as low as 8-8 to as high as 12-4. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble.". Bill Polian (Colts) is the chairman. I said might. The most unnatural rule in football. His arm was going forward, he saw the pressure and tried to pull it back and take the hit. umm Big Ben is that you?? "[1] The NFL's Competition Committee re-examined the rule after the season but did not change the rule. By rule, it was not a fumble. harrisonhits2 says: Jan 11, 2011 12:11 PM. Losing on a fluke (and possibly bad) call is much more palatable than getting blown out. lets 1)reinvent the rule book in the playoffs; 2) use the reinvention to OVERTURN the call on the field; . I am writing because harrisonhits2 has pissed me off with his idiotic post above. Smith runs second-fastest 40 by DL since 03, Saleh compares Carr to Stafford pre-Rams trade, Allen to be ready to roll for offseason program, How to maximize leverage of No. (#94 -> #33, for example). This rule caused much controversy and was eventually abolished in 2013. whats a td what isnt (calvin johnson, arian foster and someone else) Then drop it. [8], This was not the first time the Patriots had seen the tuck rule invoked in the 2001 NFL season. What time do NFL fantasy waivers go through? helmet to helmet hits/ ridicilous fines/bs suspensions! After this game, Mike Pereira, the former NFL vice-president for officiating, stated that he was no longer in support of the tuck rule.[6]. 3 trillion in assets under management, as of March 31, 2022, the most recently available information. Tom Brady has won 35 postseason games, by far the most in NFL history. ITS US AGAINST THE WORLD Get over it, pathetic Raiders fans. Where is the arm at that point? @ Monkeesfan The final was Gruden's last game of his first stint as head coach of the Raiders; he was traded to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers before the following season. There was less than 2 min left in the game when that fumble happened Unlikely the Pats wouldve gotten the ball back. Speaking of which, when does it stop becoming forward motion of a pass, and start being a fumble? Karma as they say, Is. The entire play was right in front of Ben Dreith and yet the flag stayed in the pocket. How about simplifying the rules regarding a catch while they are at it. The nation was still recovering from 9/11. Brady himself admitted that if it weren't for the ruling, which was abolished in 2014 - today, if a player motions for a forward pass and loses possession, it is ruled a fumble - he would have. Bill Belichick should have to insult three teams in a season, one must be in the AFC East. Press J to jump to the feed. As a Patriots fan, I always thought it was a bad rule and wished it were changed, but I also want the refs to follow the rules rather than making stuff up to call. Is it any coincidence that that rule never came up until the last couple of years? Though honestly, if the Patriots win it all this year, Ill be way over that as well. After the officials reviewed the play, it was determined Brady was in a throwing motion and was attempting to "tuck" the ball towards his body, therefore making it an incomplete pass and resulting in the Patriots keeping the ball. And even if they got there, the high-powered Rams awaited. We all know, as well, that the Patsies were cheating during that game, even if Roger Goodell is too afraid to admit it. And referees were still left to judge whether or not a quarterback made an 'intentional' forward movement with their arm. According to the exact wording of the rule, when a quarterback goes to pass the football, his hand is considered in throwing motion until the ball is completely stopped or pulled down in attempt to begin a run. The NHL's version of the "tuck rule" hasn't drawn the most positive response from fans and certain players since it became something officials would finally crack down on this season.. Mike Pereira, the former director of officiating of the NFL, noted that the design of the rule avoids the question of the quarterback's intention,[1] except that the referee still must judge whether the initial forward movement of the arm was "intentional". I am so sick of hearing about the tuck rule. If you watch the replay of Cassels arm (or Bradys for that matter) you can clearly see that his arm is moving forward when he loses possession. "The tuck rule was called in Week 2 of an NFL regular season matchup on September 23, 2001, between the New England Patriots and the New York Jets. Some may find it surprising that many of the leagues passes target players behind the line of scrimmage. Great games shouldnt come down to a obscure rule that when seen by the human eye at games speed LOOKS LIKE A FUMBLE EVERY TIME! Any ref who cannot see that is a fumble with more than one look should not have a job as a ref. . While it appeared that Brady had tucked the ball back towards his body, the officials were not sure and ruled it a fumble so they could review the play. He's allowed only two challenges per game, but if both challenges are successful, he's given a third. elyasm, the arm doesnt even have to be moving forward at the time the ball is knocked out to make it an incomplete pass. It sure looks like it did, or even got really really close, but there's no way you can say it 100% didn't touch it, therefore you couldn't be able to overturn the call. The Oakland Raiders were playing the New England Patriots, whose quarterback was Tom Brady. In the aftermath of the Tuck Rule Game, Patriots head coach Bill Belichick told ESPN, "I knew what the ruling should have been because we had dealt with that play a little bit earlier in the year on the other side of it. The arm is moving forward in both cases. Exactly! I dont care if your elbow grazed the turf or a defender brushed the back of your jersey as you were falling. joesixpack doesnt know what a fumble is either. Poor teams point to adversity as the reason for their failure. And having the help of replay, the ref ref who overturned the fumble should have been fired on the spot. My problem being they didn't even enforce it right against us, Brady has completed his pass motion, he is not in the middle of it. Well, folks, The Bussy Contingency has been activated. Thus, the original call was overturned, and New England maintained possession. Everyone acts like they didnt drive down the field and have Vinatieri kick one of the most difficult field goals in league history, followed by driving down the field in OT to get another score. That ref had money on the game so he made up a rule. It was a call that was made exactly in the context of the rule, an admittedly bad rule which the competition committee has never thought wise to change. May 5, 2022 2:22pm. In the overtime, Vinatieri kicked a 23-yard field goal to win the game for the Patriots. But they didnt win. They drove 61 yards in 15 plays, with Brady completing all eight of his pass attempts, for a total of 45 yards. Has no one here ever heard of the Competition Committee ? Brady then completed a seven-yard pass to Kevin Faulk before scrambling for five yards and running out of bounds to the Patriots' sideline, picking up a first down at the Oakland 42. Referees initially called the play a fumble and awarded the Redskins a safety, but after instant-replay review cited the tuck rule in reversing the decision and calling it an incomplete pass. Moreover, you Patsy fans will say let it go because it was years ago now, and yet, when the Tuck Rule happened, you all immediately called it justice for the Ben Dreith game. Secret Base and Split Zone Duo's Steven Godfrey (@38Godfrey) joined us to talk about the upcoming college football season, which means we . I will never understand why the media will not set this straight. Game was over and every player on the Raiders sideline was celebrating the victory only to be thrown back onto the field to win a game they had already won. In fact it is typically encountered about once a year by each team in the league. The "Tuck Rule" game was one of the most memorable moments in Brady's entire NFL career.. period. Such a tough call. Who cares if they throw out the rule or not. The tuck rule was enforced in a regular season game on October 9, 2005, between the Washington Redskins and the Denver Broncos. The Patriots won the toss and took the ball to start overtime. Before you go spitting your bs about roughing the passer not being called, how about watching the replay again and again and again. If it comes loose in the tucking motion, then it should be a fumble.. Cant have that! The tuck rule had been on the books for years, . He then rushed to his sideline and told his team what he had heard.